Piebald Project 2010

Okay, since it's looking like I'm definitely going to get a clutch from Kyriel now, I figured I'd start a new thread devoted to this particular project.




Here's a pic of Kyriel, my het pied, on Friday May 28th. She's starting to glow. It's not as dramatic as Dewshine when she glows, but it's a noticeable difference for me and has been staying coiled in the cool side of their tub so I'm hopeful that she'll be ovulating soon. I palpated her and her follicles are huge. They feel very much like eggs already and if she wasn't sticking to the cool side, I'd say I'd missed her ovulation. I tried to get a decent shot of her bulge, but she just refuses to cooperate. You may just have to take my word for it.





Edit -
Okay, after checking on these guys today I'm thinking I might have missed her ovulation..? She's now coiled on the heated side of the tub and when I palpated her, the follicles feel softer. I'm just going to keep checking on her daily or every other day to see if she stays put there. Hopefully she'll go into a shed cycle soon and I can start counting down days until she should lay.

Nice! Can't wait to see how many eggs she lays!

Okay, so she's no longer sitting in the warm end. She's back in the cool corner and seems to be glowing more so I'm going to guess that she hasn't ovulated just yet but it is likely to happen soon.

Awesome, I hope she lays you a clutch and that atleast one of them is a pied lol.

I can't decide if this is just more building or ovulation. She hasn't fed since May 12 according to my records. Guess I'll know if she goes into a shed cycle in the next week or so.

That definitely looks like an ov to me! Congrats!

Hope you're right!!

Kyriel is due to shed anyday now. The waiting is killing me.

May I ask what "Glowing" means?

Dagan wrote:

May I ask what "Glowing" means?

Certainly. "Glowing" is when a female is nearing ovulation and lightens in color. In some snakes it can be really dramatic and in others it's hardly noticeable. Last year my normal female ball looked very much like a mojave ball when she was glowing.

Do snakes ovulate without the presence of a male? Lol, I am exposing my noobishness about snake breeding. I was interested in breeding my corn snakes a while back but had some doubts as to their genders. Also, do snakes like ball pythons have the same kind of cycle/signs as snakes like colubrids?

Dagan wrote:

Do snakes ovulate without the presence of a male? Lol, I am exposing my noobishness about snake breeding. I was interested in breeding my corn snakes a while back but had some doubts as to their genders. Also, do snakes like ball pythons have the same kind of cycle/signs as snakes like colubrids?

Some do but it's unlikely to happen in a female that has never bred before.

Corn snakes go through many of the same stages as ball pythons but I don't think I ever noticed any of mine "glowing" or bowl wrapping. Many of the other signs to look for are basically the same, though -- loss of appetite, preference for the cool side of the enclosure before ovulation and then switching to the warm side after, moodiness, ovulation is unmistakable in either species but only lasts for a few hours or so (it looks like they just ate a huge meal), and laying belly up or coiling oddly are all signs shared.

The cycles are basically the same, too, though corns usually lay their eggs just a week or so after their pre-lay shed and ball pythons usually lay their eggs nearly a month after their pre-lay shed. Both ball python and corn snake clutches incubate for roughly the same amount of time. My corn clutches have been almost like clockwork hatching out right at day 60. My ball python clutch last year hatched out at day 53.

That is quite interesting. Thank you for the information. I need to start my own thread asking about corn snakes.

But back to this thread, I can't wait to see if you get any piebald babies. They sell for a lot, don't they?

Dagan wrote:

That is quite interesting. Thank you for the information. I need to start my own thread asking about corn snakes.

But back to this thread, I can't wait to see if you get any piebald babies. They sell for a lot, don't they?

The price of piebalds has dropped drastically. Just a few years ago, they were going for $3500-$4500 (which was considered way too low by many breeders at the time) and they've dropped a bit each year. This year, it looks like they're going for $1k-$2k depending on who you buy from. It's considerably lower than when I first told myself I wanted one but still way out of my budget, which is why I picked up het pieds to work with. I'm hoping for at least one pied in the bunch. I'd be thrilled to see white peeking out of an egg!

Wouldn't that be exciting to see white pop out of the egg!!! :-P

The Anti-Poon wrote:

Wouldn't that be exciting to see white pop out of the egg!!! :-P

Devin! Where've you been hiding!

And yes, I'm absolutely looking forward to seeing white from those eggs. They haven't even been laid yet and I'm getting ahead of myself. LOL

I have been hiding in an apt with no internets..... I just now got back to ricks place to use the internet because Justin(apt manager at my old place) claims he wants to bill me for cleaning up my mess after I moved out. He kept my deposit, I mopped the floors and scrubbed some of the walls where they were dirty. The only things left that he could bitch about were done before I even got there.

Sounds annoying, Poon! Or Anti-Poon. Or Devin.

About piebalds--I reckon the price has dropped drastically because they have become so readily available. 1k is still a great deal of money, however, especially compared to how low the price of leos has fallen.

Heck, ball pythons in general are pretty dang cheap these days. We'll see if we can hang onto them longer with this stupid python ban trying to push through.

Dagan wrote:

Sounds annoying, Poon! Or Anti-Poon. Or Devin.

About piebalds--I reckon the price has dropped drastically because they have become so readily available. 1k is still a great deal of money, however, especially compared to how low the price of leos has fallen.

Heck, ball pythons in general are pretty dang cheap these days. We'll see if we can hang onto them longer with this stupid python ban trying to push through.

I think the balls slipped through on the python ban. Only the big guys and boa constrictors still remain on it.

With ball python morphs, some just hold their value better than others and you also have to take the state of the economy into consideration as well. I think a lot of people jumped into breeding thinking that they'd make a killing producing high end morphs but by the time they were actually producing those animals, there was no one willing to pay the same price for them. I can see how price wars between competitors could start this way.

You can call me whatever you want :-P I also think pieds are gorgeous lol I drool over such gorgeous things.

I haven't really gotten into ball pythons yet. I had a normal for a while but traded her for some geckos. I don't know, compared to my colubrids she was kind of boring. I guess something like a piebald could convince me otherwise, but I'm not willing to pay the price. Teehee! Still, I do like seeing pics people take when they have bp's. I just don't have one myself anymore.

Dagan wrote:

I haven't really gotten into ball pythons yet. I had a normal for a while but traded her for some geckos. I don't know, compared to my colubrids she was kind of boring. I guess something like a piebald could convince me otherwise, but I'm not willing to pay the price. Teehee! Still, I do like seeing pics people take when they have bp's. I just don't have one myself anymore.

Yeah.. I recall one of the guys on here refer to balls as "pet rocks". lol They're definitely not as active as some other species, but I love 'em.

Haha, I have heard of that term for them before. In some ways it is kind of true, but in others it's a little bit of an overstatement. They are not very active, but they are beautiful and have very sweet temperaments.

Here's the happy couple. Gabriel is going to be moving into his own tub very soon. They both seem to be on the same shed cycle right now but haven't actually shed just yet. As soon as Kyriel sheds, I can start the countdown to eggs.

I still like the carpets, and think that the carpals would be gorgeaous if we could get some of them going.

three wrote:

I still like the carpets, and think that the carpals would be gorgeaous if we could get some of them going.

Well, they bred but it didn't "take" this year. I wasn't really putting as much effort into the carpets this year, though. Maybe next year.

Yay! She shed today! I'm comparing dates with my other females and estimating her lay date to be around July 20th.

She is so plump! and I lovers carpalls

The Anti-Poon wrote:

She is so plump! and I lovers carpalls

Yeah, she's very lumpy in places. lol I only counted 4 (possibly 5) follicles early on, though... It's a shame because I'd like more chances at hitting a pied in the clutch.

I wish this girl would hurry up and lay her eggs for me.

I got a pic of her earlier tonight. She doesn't look comfortable at all!

What a pretty girl! Surely she has too many eggs and you will have to give us a few, hehehe...

The chances are slim but heck you never know you still have the chance to get all pieds and no hets....

Well, I'd love for her to give me a bunch but when I palpated her I only felt 4 follicles so I'm expecting 4 eggs. If I missed something and she gave me 6 I wouldn't complain, though. lol

the point i was making was that you could still have 4 pieds and not hets. There is that chance/

the anti-poon wrote:

the point i was making was that you could still have 4 pieds and not hets. There is that chance/

Oh definitely! I don't think the snake gods would be that nice to me, though. I can always hope. Maybe some virgin sacrifices are in order. lol

Expecting eggs any day now...

Geez! Her behind is huge! LOL

PythonPassion wrote:

Geez! Her behind is huge! LOL

SHHHH!!! She'll hear you!! lol

TaDa!!

Yesssss!

SWEEEEEET!!!!!

I know! I know! I'm soooo looking forward to September!!!

Haha, she got upset that I called her butt big, and decided to lay the eggs so it would go back to normal size!

Congrats! Can you tell how many she laid?

PythonPassion wrote:

Haha, she got upset that I called her butt big, and decided to lay the eggs so it would go back to normal size!

Congrats! Can you tell how many she laid?

Four big fat eggs! I think these actually look a bit bigger than the eggs in the other clutches. Lets all hope for pied twins in each? lol

Let's see, if you get four pieds, surely you can sell one to me...

Haha. I bet Sandy would be more than happy to sell a few pieds if she gets 4 of them! She'll be saying "Yep, sure, you buy these, I can buy LOTS of other morphs!" LOL

Got my fingers crossed for 8 pieds, Sandy. Twins in all eggs. LOL

PythonPassion wrote:

Haha. I bet Sandy would be more than happy to sell a few pieds if she gets 4 of them! She'll be saying "Yep, sure, you buy these, I can buy LOTS of other morphs!" LOL

Got my fingers crossed for 8 pieds, Sandy. Twins in all eggs. LOL

LOL Thanks Pam!!

These are definitely bigger.. Probably not likely to get twins (but I'll still be hoping!!) but maybe it will mean bigger babies.

Are twins a common occurrence? With crested geckos, two geckos in one egg means Siamese twins, which usually means death. : /

Dagan wrote:

Are twins a common occurrence? With crested geckos, two geckos in one egg means Siamese twins, which usually means death. : /

I wouldn't say it's common but it's not unheard of, either. I had twin corn snakes when I hatched corn eggs for the first time in '08 and I've seen lots of pics of twin babies in eggs. It would definitely be incredible if it happened. I'm not going to hold my breath.

Yeah, my eggs this year were a pretty good size as well, and I had one hatchling that weighed 84 grams when it came out of the egg. Most ball babies average around 70-75 grams at hatching (or at least mine have). Got my fingers crossed for lots of twins or some big healthy babies!